Talk:Collection manager

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Creation of table for Collection search terms[edit source]

A table such as this one documented on Reddit should be created, with possibly "Description/Name" of thing to search for on a left-column, and "Search term/query/syntax" on the right-column. https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/5grz1k/list_of_collection_search_terms/ Aegonostic (talk) 15:29, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Nvm, done. Aegonostic (talk) 19:39, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
Having tables does make it clearer I think, compared to the bullet points. That said, it was causing some problems in terms of splitting up the content, and repetition of info. I've more or less fixed this by creating a new Search terms section containing the lists of search terms as well as all the notes and explanations of how they work. This minimises the redundancy while also making the most of the clearness of the tables. -- Taohinton (talk) 20:44, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

When is a search term not a search term[edit source]

After actually trying these out in the game, I think you might not have understood what exactly a 'search term' is. (In revising the section I've also changed the term back to 'keyword' since this felt much clearer.) To be clear, keywords are special words that break the usual rules for searching and limit results only to cards that meet specific criteria. For example searching for 'attack:1' does not return Bear Trap or Mana Wyrm, but searching for 'attack' does. That's because when 'attack' is followed by a value it changes from regular text into a keyword, which then applies special rules to the search.

A lot of the terms you had listed are not actually keywords, just things you can type in. For example searching for 'jade' does not return cards only from the Jade Lotus family, but instead all cards that have the word 'jade' in their title or text. Likewise 'Free' does return cards of free rarity, but also returns cards with 'free' in their text, like Blizzard and Frost Elemental. Same for 'Beast' (hello Hemet Nesingwary), 'Taunt' (ahoy there Black Knight) and mage (welcome literally every card with 'damage' in the card text). Notably, rarity and class were previously keywords (according to this page, at least) but aren't any more. The reddit post is handy, but significantly incorrect.

I've tested some of each batch, and removed those which aren't actually keywords. I've also gone over the rest of the system and revised the info, notably including card sets. -- Taohinton (talk) 22:40, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Excuse me, but I explicitly stated that all of those search terms would search for their intended queries, AND that they could bring up unintended results. Please bring back those tables. They are not mutually exclusive keywords search terms. And I mean all of those tables.
Ok, I looked at the tables again, the "Class" table was bad, all but Grimy Goons, Jade Lotus, and Kabal were indeed search terms. But rarity is still a search term. If you search for "Common", what do you get? Common cards as the results. Did you look at the Reddit link up above? Get back to me as soon as you can. Don't want this revert on my conscience. Thanks. Aegonostic (talk) 23:45, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
[Reply to original post:] Hmm, I'm not sure if we're on the same page here. The "search terms" in the tables that I removed were literally just text that you can type in, no different from 'when' or 'damage' or 'can't'. As mentioned, the reddit post is incorrect or at least misleading in several places. Yes, typing 'Beast' in will bring up Beast cards, but it will also bring up any card with the text 'beast' in the title, text, rarity, or card set. It may seem that they are searching for specific card types, but they are not, they are simply matching text, as is already abundantly described in the above section on the search function. These words and phrases have no special effect or significance.
As such, these aren't "keywords" or even "search terms" of any kind, just words commonly found on cards; you might as well list every significant word on the wiki (and yet you left out many such words). I believed you were attempting (as the author of the reddit post) to compile a list of specific terms for use in the search function, equivalent to 'missing', 'owned:X', 'gvg', etc. If you are aware that the examples were not special words in any way, then why list them alongside those which are, such as 'missing' and 'golden'?
[Reply to subsequent edit:] It does sound like you're getting your words a bit mixed up (no offence intended). When you say "the "Class" table was bad, all but Grimy Goons, Jade Lotus, and Kabal were indeed search terms" what exactly do you mean? As explained above, 'mage' does not bring up exclusively mage cards, but any card with 'mage' in the text or title, and 'jade' does not bring up exclusively Jade Lotus cards, but any card with 'jade' in the title or text. This clearly shows that they are not keywords, or else only mage/Jade Lotus cards would appear.
Re: rarity, this was an error, I didn't mean to remove those tables. I tested them and they did indeed work.
Re: the reddit link, as I explained in my previous reply, I've been through the reddit article and as I've said, there are some mistakes there, at the least in terms of perspective. -- Taohinton (talk) 00:32, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Correction: as explained in my previous reply, rarity isn't listed because it is also simply searching for the words in the rarity field: "Likewise 'Free' does return cards of free rarity, but also returns cards with 'free' in their text, like Blizzard and Frost Elemental."
I am open to the idea of pointing out what can be searched for, but this is quite a different thing to a list of keywords or search terms. Currently this is already explained at the top of the search section, but it could be made clearer. -- Taohinton (talk) 00:38, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
First is that I'm not the author of that Reddit post. And secondly, I know from what I understand that you're trying to separate out "keywords" from other "general search terms". What I'm trying to bring into the article are those "general search terms" that will undoubtedly give you all of the cards queried PLUS cards that by chance have those "search words" in their text, as you said with Blizzard and Frost Elemental. Right now, the article doesn't state how you're going to search for Common/Rare/Epic/Legendary cards in the Collection manager, and all the rest of the search words that I put in those tables you removed. How do I search for those cards? It should be documented in this article don't you think? At least, separate from the distinct "keywords" that you are upholding in the article. Aegonostic (talk) 01:15, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Well, firstly, I never thought you were the author of the reddit post. You did specifically ask me for my opinion, and this whole topic started with you posting the link to it, so I therefore pointed out that it had some errors.
Secondly, the idea of creating a table of keywords was actually yours, when you said "A table such as this one documented on Reddit should be created". The one on reddit is intended to be a table of "distinct keywords". The only thing is that the author has gotten confused over what is and isn't actually a keyword. Hence their note "All of these search terms can be combined, except rarity & set (don't ask me why)" - the reason is that rarity and set aren't search terms, just regular text.
Re: "general search terms", how you search for them is simply to type them into the bar. There is nothing else involved. However, as I have already said I'm open to making these things clearer on the page. The page currently states "The function searches not only within card titles, but also within card text, card type, card subtype, card rarity and card set. Any card which includes the exact search text in any of these locations will be listed." but maybe that could be reiterated elsewhere in the section. -- Taohinton (talk) 01:34, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
As a compromise, I've tentatively made this edit. I've added a list of all the types of things you can search for, near the top of the section and in bold, so it's very prominent. This makes it clear that all of these things can be searched for, and provides a few examples of each (all examples for rarity and card type). -- Taohinton (talk) 02:07, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
"Reward" and "Promo" are search terms that search for their respective sets, and they should of no doubt be included. When you search for words like "the", you WILL get results for The Grand Tournament AND The League of Explorers, plus all the other cards that have the letter combination of "the" within their text. Don't you think that should be documented? I don't like Blizzard's way of implementing this search engine, but that is how it is, and it should be documented within this article.
It's useful to have the removed tables here as a visual reference for this discussion:
Rarity
Query Syntax
Basic basic, free
Common common
Rare rare
Epic epic
Legendary legendary
Class
Query Syntax
Grimy Goons goons, grimy, grimy goons
Jade Lotus lotus, jade, jade lotus
Kabal kabal
Sets
Various shorthand terms exist for each card set.
Query Syntax
Classic classic
Reward reward
Promo promo
Curse of Naxxramas nax, naxx, naxxramas
Goblins vs Gnomes gvg, goblins, vs, gnomes, goblins vs gnomes
Blackrock Mountain brm, blackrock, mountain, blackrock mountain
The Grand Tournament tgt, the, tournament, grand, grand tournament, the grand tournament
The League of Explorers loe, the, league, of, explorers, league of explorers
Whispers of the Old Gods tog, wog, wotog, whispers, of, the, old, gods, whispers of the old gods
One Night in Karazhan karazhan
Mean Streets of Gadgetzan msg, mean, streets, of, gadgetzan, mean streets of gadgetzan
Keywords and card type
Query Syntax
Minion minion
Spell spell
Weapon weapon
Battlecry battlecry
Charge charge
Choose One choose one
Combo combo
Deathrattle deathrattle
Discover discover
Divine Shield divine shield
Enrage enrage
Immune immune
Inspire inspire
Jade Golem jade golem
Overload overload
Secret secret
Spell Damage spell damage
Stealth stealth
Taunt taunt
Windfury windfury
Minion type
Query Syntax
Beast beast
Demon demon
Dragon dragon
Mech mech
Murloc murloc
Pirate pirate
Totem totem
Aegonostic (talk) 01:29, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Try typing 'Promo' into the bar. You will find the cards from the Promo set, yes. But you will also get Fight Promoter, which is not from the Promo set. The reason is that the search is simply for the text 'Promo'. It is therefore as explained, not a keyword, just regular text. The same for 'the' and 'of' and all other words in the titles of card sets. This is already documented on the wiki, as quote above. -- Taohinton (talk) 01:38, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Oh, I didn't see your last post before this, I'll take a look right now. Aegonostic (talk) 02:46, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Idk, it's whatever. You have authority so, I will defer to you. But if the occasion arises again, I will have to revisit this discussion to talk about this again. Aegonostic (talk) 02:47, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Actually the compromise looks pretty good, now that I see it in a new mood. Props. Aegonostic (talk) 17:41, 9 December 2016 (UTC)