Hearthstone Wiki:Admin noticeboard/Archive04

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Admin noticeboard archive[edit source]

This is an archive of old issues reported to the admins. Please add any new issues to the new admin noticeboard.

Table bug[edit source]

A bug in the custom card table templates is causing the first individual {{Card}} call below the table to produce a line break. You can see it here for spell, minion and weapon tables. Strangely {{Cards}} doesn't seem to be affected by the bug, and since we're converting to that in most cases it's probably not too a big deal. -- Taohinton (talk) 16:11, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

It's looking like it has something to do with the semantic queries themselves as opposed to actually being the templates. I know that semantic queries do inject some invisible wikicode designed to prevent queries from setting properties themselves. My guess is this somehow confuses the parser in this situation because all the semantic table templates seem to be doing it. I'm not sure it can be solved inside the templates themselves, except maybe by something that would add extra vertical space as a side effect. Probably the best workaround for now is just to add <div> before the card list and </div> after. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 23:59, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

A separate table bug. On the Minion page, there is a large collapsed table of Collectible minions. There are 362 collectible minions listed which is correct, but the last line of the table claims that 364 minions are listed. The Uncollectible minions table does not have this issue. -- Xinhuan (talk) 16:43, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

Mobile bug[edit source]

A follower on Twitter just passed on that he's having trouble viewing the site on mobile. It seems on most pages of the site he's getting the social media popup stuck in the way of the screen like this, unable to click 'No thanks' or otherwise get past the popup. I've advised him to disable the popup in preferences, but obviously it's still broken in some way. -- Taohinton (talk) 16:45, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Update: Apparently the problem is also blocking him from getting to the preferences screen to disable the popups. -- Taohinton (talk) 17:13, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
I've filed a bug report, but the linked image seems to be broken. Is there a working version somewhere else? oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 18:53, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
You mean the link isn't loading? It's still working fine for me - perhaps try it again? Otherwise I suppose I can upload it to imgur and link it from there. If you mean you require some other info, let me know. -- Taohinton (talk) 20:34, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
When I try to view it in the browser, I'm getting a message that it can't be displayed because it contains errors. When I try to save it, I just get an empty file. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 21:20, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Hmm, okay. I've re-uploaded it here (also changed its format from jpg to png). Does that work? -- Taohinton (talk) 01:30, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. I've attached it to the bug report. I'll add more when I have new information. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 21:37, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
*facepalm* I forgot to leave a message about this. This issue should have been fixed in an update made last week. Let me know if it crops up again. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 03:24, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
No problem. I've sent the guy who originally reported it a message; I'll let you know if there's still a problem. -- Taohinton (talk) 23:25, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately, it seems he's still having the problem, with the popup in the way - fresh screenshot. It seems the ad that was partly obscuring the box is no longer there, but he still can't click either the 'Never Again' or 'No Thanks' buttons to clear the box itself. -- Taohinton (talk) 15:03, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Collapsible sections[edit source]

User:Xinhuan and User:Patashu just brought up an idea I'd also been wondering about - collapsible page sections. This would allow us to hide lengthy examples and technical sections, making it easier to navigate longer articles. Is this doable with the current tech? If not, perhaps a simplified table template could be used to provide a similar effect within sections. -- Taohinton (talk) 23:38, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

It wouldn't be too hard to set up, but I'm hoping there might be a standardized solution for this. I'll poke around some soon and see if I can find one. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 04:55, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I think just using the mw-collapsible feature would be best here. I know it didn't work correctly for the card tables due to certain features they were using, but it should work fine for this. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 05:54, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

New topics[edit source]

A few things I've been meaning to mention. I've put them in rough order of importance, but none of these are as important as the data import.

Different card categories
  • Until now, we've used |devonly in order to keep everything inappropriate (debug cards, boss cards, etc) out of main circulation. However, this system basically prevents us from listing/searching any cards except those available in regular play. The arrival of special Brawl cards is another reason it would be great to be able to sort/list non-regular cards, separate to the regular pool.
In theory we could use |set selectors for all table/list calls, but that would require stating each and every valid set each time an editor wants to make a table or list, which would be an ever-growing list of sets, and would mean every table and list on the wiki would need to be updated each time a new set is added. Obviously this is no good. Using card set for this purpose also wouldn't work with certain categories of cards.
Without knowing anything about the tech possibilities, it seems like an additional type of selector indicating a broader category of cards might work. For example, on the card pages we'd replace |devonly=true with something like |category=Brawl or |category=Removed. We could use a value for normal playable cards (this value used by default)/Brawl cards/Boss cards/Choose One cards/debug cards/upcoming cards/removed cards. In this way we could write something like {{Cards|ability=Taunt|category=Boss}} to see all the Boss cards with Taunt - and current tables/listings would be unaffected. It would also allow us to list/sort new upcoming cards, which would be very handy when new content is being teased. -- Taohinton (talk) 19:06, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
I've added a |category= parameter for custom behavior, along with the same on {{Cards}} etc. It's on the doc page for {{Card infobox}}. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 08:56, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
  • I think we've arrived at (actually did a while ago) the point where auto-loading tables are becoming problematic. Because of the size of tables like those on Minion and Spell, loading the data makes those whole pages load significantly slower, even though most readers probably aren't interested in the tables at all.
What would be great would be tables that load on demand, like these used on Wowpedia. This would allow readers to load the articles themselves fairly instantly, and then only wait for tables to load if and when they wanted to browse them.
If that's doable, I'm wondering if it might also fix the problem/limit we've encountered with having multiple tables on the one page. If so, that could allow us to do some more intelligent listings on card pages, too. -- Taohinton (talk) 19:06, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
I was hoping this would be something standardized, but it's a custom script, and I'm not sure at this time it wouldn't need modifications to work over here; I'm seeing some references to class names that may be Wowpedia-specific. At any rate, it works largely as I would have suspected: the tables are actually on other pages. Since the problem really has nothing to do with the loading, as the wiki caches the page after it parses it, the only way to deal with the real problem (the time it takes to parse the page during a save or recache) is not to have it on the page at all.
For this reason, I'm not particularly fond of the idea, because I still believe key page content should not require scripts to display unless it's unavoidable, and any way of loading the tables without scripts defeats the whole purpose. The only noscript alternative I could provide is to link to the page where the table really is at. Honestly, I think keeping it simple and just moving tables to other pages is best if you think they aren't the primary content on the page, such as putting the minion tables on, say, List of minions instead of Minions. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 04:38, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
Back to this; I've just attempted to move the table on Minion to Minion card list in order to reduce the huge loading time for that page. However, the loading time for the tables alone is it itself too much to allow me to save the edit for the new page! For now I've managed to include the small uncollectible table, but including the huge collectible table seems unworkable. Obviously, as soon as I remove the |category=upcoming we're going to have even more cards in the tables, making this even more problematic.
Smaller tables like on the class pages and most minion types are fine, and Spell and Weapon are manageable for now. Minion appears to have exceeded anything the current solution can handle, though.
Do you have any suggestions? It seems ridiculous not to have full card listings on a card game wiki. The minion table, although lengthy, is handy for seeing which minions have certain mana cost or stats, or for getting an idea of the average stats for a certain cost, etc, so it does have some practical value. -- Taohinton (talk) 00:28, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
From what I've seen in a recent case, a lot of the burden seems to come from the use of standard image links, like for all the health icons and such. Sadly, it seems the wiki software just doesn't handle it well even when we're just reusing the same images over and over. So I tried a workaround: display the images through CSS classes in MediaWIki:Common.css. So far, I've only converted {{Mana}}, {{Health}}, and {{Attack}}, and I haven't touched the class icons yet, but that did allow the table to save. (I also have to go back and add sizing support for the new approach. Right now, it's fixed at 16px.)
I'll plan on hitting the class icons tomorrow, and actually, I'll probably go through the table row templates as well and hardcode the needed code instead of calling {{Mana}} and the others, which will hopefully also speed things up significantly. Those two things are probably the most we can do short of starting the simplify the tables by removing images and styling. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 02:36, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
  • I'd like to add another parameter for {{card infobox}} - something like hiddentags. There are various purposes it would be good to tag cards for (including card art, and more specific breakdowns of broader categories like triggered effects) but none of these want to be on display in the infobox. -- Taohinton (talk) 19:06, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
This is done. You'll also have to use |hiddentag= on {{Cards}}, {{Custom card table}}, etc. for these. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 08:56, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
  • We have a very small but apparently ongoing translation effort on the wiki, with pages like Hearthstone Wiki/pt and Paladino; the effort seems to be very occasional and the existing pages are mostly half-translated and out of date. I welcome the efforts, but I'm wondering if there's a good way to host the articles separately/in their own namespace; they are currently in the main namespace and come up in general search queries alongside the English language ones. At the moment we only have a few of these pages, but more pages getting translated (and/or into more languages) will lead to more confusion. -- Taohinton (talk) 19:06, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
Our gphelp:Translation guidelines call for the country code subpage approach currently, and there isn't way I know of to exclude these pages from search. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 08:56, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

Cards by ability and tag[edit source]

moved to Project talk:Admin noticeboard#Cards by ability and tag

Template tantrums[edit source]

I'm trying in my usual clumsy way to make a simple template, but I can't get quite get it to work. The idea is to call Template:List cards/TGT with e.g., {{List cards/TGT|ability=Inspire}} and get a full list section of category=Upcoming cards with the Inspire ability. It was working initially, but trying to add a range of possible parameters seems to have broken it. It's possible I could figure something crude out, but if you'd care to cast a more experienced eye over it it would be much appreciated ;) -- Taohinton (talk) 03:29, 23 July 2015 (UTC)

Not sure exactly why, but wrapping both parameter name and value in the #ifs seemed to be messing it up. It isn't necessary, though. Both of the templates you're calling will handle empty parameter values just fine, so I've taken the liberty of updating the List cards/TGT template that way. It seems to work correctly now. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 06:06, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! I actually only added the #ifs in because it wasn't working without them, thinking perhaps they were needed. It seems the problem was I didn't add the pipe in the second parameter calls; hence causing problems when the parameters were blank. Still, it's led me to finally find out what the piping actually does in parameter calls, so at least it was a fruitful mistake ;) -- Taohinton (talk) 16:01, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Dr. Boom vandalism[edit source]

There is a particular IP that has now vandalised Dr. Boom's page two days in a row. I don't know how often it has to occur before action is taken, so i just thought I would let you guys know. --Beanchagbear (talk) 14:22, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. I noticed the vandalism from the day before, but in most cases vandals only do so once (or several times in a short period) and then disappear. This is now that IP's third instance of vandalism, so I've blocked them for a little while. -- Taohinton (talk) 16:42, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Image issues[edit source]

User:Senescalzin uploaded File:The Grand Tournament - advertisement.png, which is failing to show up at all, even on its own image page. Strangely, when I first loaded the image page it showed fine, but after trying to get it show up in an article, it's now missing for me even on the image page. It is showing at the curse media URL though.

This might be a reprise of this issue, or unrelated. Regarding that issue, the big images such as File:Garrosh-full.jpg that I mentioned in that discussion are still now showing up for me on actual article pages. -- Taohinton (talk) 16:48, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

Looks like it's not just that file; File:Stormwind Champion HS ad.png has the same problem. There don't seem to be any others. Other pngs uploaded around the same time seem to be fine, and we have larger jpgs too. -- Taohinton (talk) 17:12, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
It's probably the resizing combined with the server image caching. While the smaller versions uploaded aren't showing up on the image page, they do work elsewhere even when resized, so those smaller versions can be used right now. As for why larger images aren't working when resized, I've sent that up to the dev team. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 13:56, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
This is something I forgot about too, but with "advertisement" and "ad" being in the image name, especially right at the end, if you're running an ad blocker, you may want to disable it on those pages and see if it's the cause. The remaining problems with the two advertisement images should now be solved with a rename. Perhaps try "promo" or something like that.
The Garrosh image is affected by a different problem; there is a fix for this issue scheduled to go out in a couple weeks. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 21:16, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, I've moved the files and that's fixed it! -- Taohinton (talk) 21:36, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Special:ActiveUsers[edit source]

Probably just another random bug, but Special:ActiveUsers hasn't been working for over a month, possibly far longer. It usually shows no users at all, or sometimes myself only. -- Taohinton (talk) 03:26, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Very odd. I've also sent this up to the dev team. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 13:56, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
Dev tells me that the code for this page wasn't updated in the core MediaWiki source to keep up with changes, but they've properly caught up in 1.25. I don't know yet when we're intending to upgrade, but this issue should be resolved when we do. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 07:07, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
Other MediaWiki-powered wiki I visit (not a Gamepedia wiki) run into the same issue and it has been resolved in MediaWiki 1.25.1 (a72fd28), so Hearthstone wiki should be fine too :-) -- Karol007 (talk) 22:36, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
Seems to be working again, maybe thanks to a recent update. -- Karol007 (talk) 00:38, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery[edit source]

It seems we have another wiki-clone at http://hs.insenium.com/gameplay/ . All the Hearthstone content I've seen there is 100% copied from the wiki, the vast majority of which being my own personal writing ;) Always nice to be appreciated, although they seem to have stopped at GvG, which I'll try not to take personally. -- Taohinton (talk) 03:41, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the report. I'll reach out and see if we can get them to either comply with our CC-BY-NC-SA license or remove the copied content. CrsBenjamin 21:15, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

Data import[edit source]

I've been meaning to mention this for a while, although I wasn't sure if it was planned anyway. In a few days' time the patch for The Grand Tournament will be made available, and Hearthpwn will import all the data from it to their site. As usual, we'd like the same data imported to the wiki.

Just to be clear, we want all data available:

  • Enchantments (previously unwanted but now accepted)
  • Cards - of any kind or set
  • Hero Powers
  • Heroes/Bosses
  • Basically anything else available for import

I'm still meaning to get round to discussing possible improvements to the import process, but the current system works okay, especially as I'm getting a little help now with the editing. -- Taohinton (talk) 21:36, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Hey there! We can definitely look into a fresh import. I'll check into some of the other issues you mentioned tomorrow. We can maybe chat about how to improve the imports as well, but maybe via email so all the appropriate folks can be involved. CrsBenjamin 00:41, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, I forgot to leave a reply here. I usually wait until weekdays to make import requests, and I got a late start today due to late night work yesterday. I've sent an email tonight to give them advance warning.
I do have one question. Do you want the importer to overwrite the existing data pages for this run with fresh Hearthpwn, or would you rather just have new data? oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 01:31, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
The standard deal is to not have them overwrite data (although we do want images to get updated, as usual). I've just gone through and manually corrected all datamined changes to existing cards; what is left are the new cards, be they Grand Tournament, Tavern Brawl or debug, as well as enchantments and the like. All data pages for these are currently un-numbered, or not yet made. When the new numbered ones come in, I'll delete the current data pages, just like we did following Blackrock Mountain, and the pages can then switch over to the new data. After that we can correct any errors in the data. -- Taohinton (talk) 03:12, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Tao, sorry I didn't send quicker notice that we were starting it now. Just crossing t's and dotting i's over here. But, as usual, you are already on it :). As for "changes" to the import process if you can send us an email with what you would like to see I'd be happy to pass it over, although I can't promise anything at the moment. -- Smokie (talk) 18:32, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
Hi Smokie! No problem, I am very happy about the promptness, great job :) Also happy it's happened at a time when I was awake and at the computer, so I could get stuck in straight away!
I'm still up to my ears in datapages right now, but I'll consider possible changes once I've had a chance to review (and relax!). -- Taohinton (talk) 23:10, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Corrections[edit source]

There are some minor corrections to be made from the Hearthpwn data, which hopefully Eyes can run a bot for:

  • Card set: "The Grand Tourney" needs to be changed to "The Grand Tournament"
  • Type: "Ability" should be "Spell". I think we normally fix this?
  • Flavor text with an * in it isn't displaying in card tables. I tried to fix this with nowiki tags but this doesn't seem to work. Fist of Jaraxxus, Wilfred Fizzlebang. Also producing an error symbol at the top of these pages.

There might be more, but that should be most of them. -- Taohinton (talk) 23:12, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

One more: For some reason no data was imported for Lance Carrier (possibly due to the recent rename). I've copied Hearthpwn's data manually, but we still need a golden image for it. -- Taohinton (talk) 00:23, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
My bot is changing the * to &#42;. I had hoped to change in the templates, but I think, unfortunately, it get processed even before it gets in the templates. I'll have to ask the Hearthpwn team to convert it on their end in the importer. The bot should be making the other changes too. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 06:07, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
A number of cards which had their names changed on Hearthpwn shortly before import have been created with the old card numbers instead of the new card numbers. This includes Shado-Pan Rider and Brave Archer; there might be others. This meant the Hearthpwn links didn't work (which I've fixed) but it may also mean the images don't get updates in the future. We can easily move the data pages to the new numbers, but I'm not sure if this would be a solution or cause the problem I'm worried about. -- Taohinton (talk) 01:11, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
Another correction: The data imports seem to not provide any mana cost value for 0 cost cards. While I've manually fixed all the TGT ones I could spot (we always want a value), it seems we still have others in the system which are missing mana values. If a bot could be run for this, it would save a bit of time for editors. Note that some may be Choose One cards, which I know don't always get included in bot runs? -- Taohinton (talk) 02:28, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
I had thought we'd set it up with a default of 0, but I see I made a mistake in getting it passed to {{Card infobox/layout}} through {{Card infobox}}, and I run bot jobs over Category:All cards generally, so every card page should be hit. As for the other matters, I'll have to wait until I can talk to the Hearthpwn import person and get an idea of what happened. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 01:40, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
For the card ID mismatches, the short answer is that it will be better to move them. What's happening here is that sometimes they have to manually input the card data before they know the proper ID. It then gets updated when they do the automated pull, so after a ID change, the current ID on Hearthpwn should be the one the importer uses from that point on.
It sounds like we should also get cards imported with type Spell instead of Ability. They were already discussing changing that, in fact. I'm waiting on the Lance Carrier image; my timing was bad and I think my message went through as they were leaving. But I think I should have that by tomorrow at the latest. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 22:23, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

Tooltips for redirect[edit source]

It never occurred to me to ask, but is it possible for redirects to card pages to display tooltips? Sometimes you want to link something like "Ragnaros" in a quote or lore section without having to type [[Ragnaros the Firelord|Ragnaros]] to get the tooltip to work. -- Taohinton (talk) 00:49, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Also, we seem to have a bug with displaying tooltips when multiple links point to the same card page. For example Blackrock Mountain has several links to the Ragnaros/Nefarian/Deathwing/Onyxia pages, but often only the first one you mouse over will provide a tooltip; mousing over other links to the same page after that will fail to present a tooltip. Refreshing the page lets you reset which one provides the tooltip; the others will then not work. It does seem to be variable; at least in preview I can sometimes get tooltips from 2 at once, but other times not. -- Taohinton (talk) 00:58, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

One more: tooltips also don't display when a specific section is linked to. It's not particularly important, but would be better fixed if it's simple. -- Taohinton (talk) 02:02, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll be switching the tooltips to the new extension when I get one more bug fix pushed through. I'm pretty sure that will deal with the last two issues. Redirects in tooltips are completely dependent on this issue, because the tooltip script uses the image properties through SMW. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 06:07, 21 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm going to start the process of switching over today. Since the old script and the extension are likely to conflict, I'll have to remove the script first and wait out the cache. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 20:32, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Patrol issues[edit source]

For a while now, patrolling any edit made to a page that isn't in the main namespace will load the separate "Marked as patrolled" page instead of simply removing the "Mark as patrolled" text from the diff page. This is very annoying when patrolling several hundred edits, as I have to load three times the normal amount (edit -> patrol page -> back to the edit), which wastes a lot of time. Patrolling normal pages works fine, but this seems to happen with all pages starting with Talk:, User_talk:, File:, etc. -- Taohinton (talk) 01:53, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

I wanted to leave a note that I've started looking into this. I waited through the weekend because I figured I'd have to ask dev to make the configuration setting available, but my initial research isn't promising in that I haven't had any luck finding a documented configuration setting related to this yet. I'll keep looking into it, but it may be this isn't configurable behavior. If not, I'm not sure there's anything we can do. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 13:21, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
Not sure if it was intended, but the issue seems to be fixed now. -- Taohinton (talk) 23:48, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Stacking images[edit source]

Similar to how {{Card}} currently works, I'm wondering if there's a way to display multiple images with captions, with their stacking up on the page determined by the page width. This is specifically in regard to the coming full art pages like Naxxramas full art - compare with something like Curse of Naxxramas#Neutral cards, where the cards will move to fit the available space. This would be a good solution to optimising such content for the variety of possible resolutions, and could be useful on other pages, too. -- Taohinton (talk) 21:25, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

The easiest way would just be the gallery tag MediaWiki provides. It's already set up to wrap images based on browser width. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 23:07, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Well, I feel slightly stupid for asking, but thanks ;) Related: I'd like to be able to have the same behaviour for the mini-tables on Card back. Is there a way to make them adjust in response to browser width? A similar question might apply to sections like Hunter#Level 11-60. The desired format in both cases and the use of {{Card}} in the latter make the <gallery> format undesirable. -- Taohinton (talk) 23:44, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
I'll reply on your talk page. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 01:21, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

Image upload bugged?[edit source]

For quite a while now, the image upload page no longer displays a preview of the image being uploaded. I thought this might be a mediawiki change, but Wowpedia and Wikipedia still feature a preview. The source filename is also no longer auto-filled into the destination filename field. The former would certainly be useful to have back, since it reduces error and saves double-checking. -- Taohinton (talk) 21:28, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

An bug with one of my scripts here was causing it to quietly error out rather than simply do nothing on pages where it wouldn't be needed. Presumably, the error was interrupting some other scripts from processing, such as those on the upload page. This should be fixed now. I apologize for the inconvenience. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 22:22, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Warsong Commander golden image needed[edit source]

The change to Warsong Commander is now live, so I've updated all relevant pages (hopefully!). I've also uploaded a fresh copy of the regular card image from Hearthpwn, but can't make a non-animated golden one myself. -- Taohinton (talk) 22:29, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

New version uploaded. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 16:57, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Other Languages[edit source]

http://help.gamepedia.com/Translation_guidelines I want other languages on this wiki. (like Minecraft wiki, Terraria wiki, and so on) Syouseki (talk) 01:54, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

I've replied on your talk page. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 12:01, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Card import time again[edit source]

With BlizzCon's revelation of the new adventure, The League of Explorers, planned to release quite imminently on November 12, the wiki will need data importing for the new cards once it hits the server. For the time being I've manually added data for all playable cards revealed so far, but we'll need data and images not only for all the uncollectible cards and enchantments as well, but also the hundred or so boss cards, Hero Powers and bosses themselves. The standard details apply regarding what we want. As ever, this saves a huge amount of time.

As usual, once the data has been obtained, we'd like it ASAP, so that we have the wiki up to speed for players seeking to learn about the adventure. Also, if it's easier for me to email Smokie about this, I'm happy to do that. -- Taohinton (talk) 23:18, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I prefer to go ahead and take the requests so I can try to make sure all important details get passed on. This is especially true if there's still any desire to change the process in the future. Due to past experience, I'm not quite so trusting of email chains for this kind of thing. Anyway, I've passed word along, and I'll double-check with them when we get closer to the release. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 01:54, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
Any update? The adventure is now live, and we don't have the data we need. The data went up on Hearthpwn two days ago. -- Taohinton (talk) 18:17, 12 November 2015 (UTC)
I've just been told it should happen today. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 20:17, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Fixes, etc[edit source]

There are a couple of things I'll ask for/about later, but for now: most of the import seems to have gone through, but we're still waiting on images for the playable cards (and maybe some others?), regular and golden. I uploaded regular copies myself for most of them, in order to get the new data pages up and running, but we still need goldens. The import stopped and started a lot; the regular cards (and the others which are missing images) started at 5:34 UT. If we could get them imported before the weekend we should be up to speed. -- Taohinton (talk) 14:43, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

I've been told this message was passed along, but I haven't heard back yet with any ETA. I apologize for the inconvenience. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 02:29, 14 November 2015 (UTC)
They've changed the account they're uploading these under: Special:Contributions/GamepediaImports. I see more went up on Saturday. Was anything still missed? oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 20:56, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
I actually already had a draft open replying to this, but then I saw the imports coming in and thought I'd better wait that out before replying! The import that *just* finished seems to have covered the missing images, so we should be up to date now.
Out of interest, is there a reason the import process was so lumpy/on and off? Was it related to the issues I've been having with connecting to the wiki lately?
Re: fixes:
  • We could do with a bot to change data with set = "104" to "The League of Explorers".
  • All the new Hero Powers are also failing to produce line breaks, since they don't use <br>. This makes the "Hero Power" run into the text, e.g. Getting Hungry (Summon a Hungry Naga). I can always do it myself, but if a bot can handle it, it would save me a bit of trouble. -- Taohinton (talk) 23:25, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
I should be able to get a bot going on this over the night tonight.
As for the import being done in batches, I don't know for certain, other than this is a new person doing it for the first time, and we've haven't had any direct communication. My guess would be is that he separated the new cards into batches and imported that way rather than simply having the importer skip cards with existing pages, which I think is what we usually do. When I can get clear from other projects for a bit, I'm going to start on a wiki page documenting how the process should go, let you check it over to see if it's correct or add any other requirements, and then I'll pass it along to the HearthPwn team so that hopefully details like that don't get lost in these transitions. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 00:58, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
Good timing, I was just trying to write up a start to a discussion regarding making solid arrangements for future imports, but likewise haven't quite got the opportunity just yet. It would be good to get something set down.
A couple more bot jobs:
  • All new cards should have has_gold set to true, except for the bosses (heroes). Not sure how many are still set to false, but a bot to fix any left would be helpful.
  • We also have a few "Death Rattle"s floating around that should be "Deathrattle", if that's easily fixed. -- Taohinton (talk) 01:32, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
For clarification, that means everything but the hero powers for the has_gold? oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 05:18, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
Oh, good point! Everything except the heroes and the Hero Powers. I think all the 'regular play' cards are already set to true, so the goal is the boss cards (which is most of the new cards). -- Taohinton (talk) 05:25, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
I guess what I should be asking is, is this list correct? It's all the cards in The League of Explorers, not including hero powers, that have has_gold set to false. Is there something else I need to filter out? oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 07:17, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
Yup, looks right. I'd forgotten I'd already changed the set on the heroes themselves. -- Taohinton (talk) 14:20, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
The bot is done on these latest requests now. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 08:00, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

And again[edit source]

The latest patch has added a bunch more Tavern Brawl cards, so we are again in need of an import. This also reminds me that we should get around to laying down that agreement regarding future imports.

The main thing to establish regarding data imports is that we need them every time new cards are added to the game/datamined, and we would like them as quickly as possible. Ideally we would have the same data that's been imported to Hearthpwn imported to the wiki once they've finished there. Being able to trust that this would happen would also save a lot of wasted effort, since editors could wait for the import first rather than doing half of it manually just beforehand. Of course, we can't just wait for the import if it's not coming, or not coming for several days. As it stands I have to get stuck in since it's sometimes months before Tavern Brawl cards from smaller patches get added. -- Taohinton (talk) 22:51, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

I've started a page up: Project:Data imports. If we can agree that this much of the documentation is correct, I can sent in on the Hearthpwn team and get a request in for a fresh import. I'd rather not proceed again until I'm sure we're agreed on the particulars of what the Hearthpwn bot needs to do. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 05:30, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Great! Very glad to be getting this rolling. I've added a few things to the draft; please review and alter/fix terminology if necessary. Among them are a couple of common errors: "Death Rattle" and "Ability". Obviously these are easily fixed by bot, but if it's appropriate, fixing them before import would save another job I have to ask you to do each time. The other changes are just clarifications.
What exactly is the intention for the Community procedures section? Steps relevant to the current discussion, or simply a rundown of procedure for the record? -- Taohinton (talk) 06:34, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Just adding a place where you can add any post-import steps you guys do, such as cleaning up any manually creating data pages and such if needed. If you don't see any use for the section, feel free to remove it. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 06:55, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
I was already planning on making a wiki help page detailing the overall data import/new card procedure, so I might add a summary on the project page or possibly just link to the full rundown when (or if) I get round to that. -- Taohinton (talk) 07:02, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Any update on the agreement? I'd like to get something solidly in place before the next content release. -- Taohinton (talk) 20:09, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm afraid I haven't heard anything back, and due to a weird schedule the next few days because of RL issues, I probably won't be able to catch them in office until later in the week, but I'll follow up as soon as I can to see if they have the fixes in. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 02:39, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
Checking in again regarding this. Also, in case you missed it, I added one more data formatting request, to fix italics for the wiki. (I added a second request regarding golden cards, but I've changed my mind and reverted it.) -- Taohinton (talk) 23:24, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
I apologize. This slipped my mind during a crazy week, and then this weekend was long due to a holiday, so this is the first day they've been back in the office. I've requested an update, and I'll let you know when I hear back. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 22:29, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
Sorry for the inconvenience. It took a while to get a response back, but it sounds like everything is in place now. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 05:21, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

The latest import seems to have completed, but didn't include the fixes we were discussing (I assume this is because the project hasn't been reviewed yet). It would be great if you could run a bot to:

  • Change set from "UnkNew2" to "Tavern Brawl"
  • Change "Death Rattle" to "Deathrattle"
  • Change "Ability" to "Spell"

Thanks. -- Taohinton (talk) 02:00, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

The bot job should be done now. I just heard back, and they weren't able to get all the fixes done before the imports. I've been told there is now a ticket in the system for getting this done, so I'm hopeful that will be taken care of by the next import. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 17:04, 9 December 2015 (UTC)
Great. Do keep me updated regarding the overall data import project; it will be a relief once we've got something firmly established and set on auto-pilot. -- Taohinton (talk) 07:41, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Card lists[edit source]

I'm wondering if there's a way for a template like {{List cards/Upcoming}} to display or not display depending on whether there are any eligible cards or not. The idea is that I could leave such templates in place on the ability pages, so that new upcoming cards would automatically be added shown on those pages when they are added. I could do this already, but the section header and preamble text would stick around all year round. I could counter that by adding that to the template only when new content was announced, but even then pages which didn't have any eligible cards (eg no Taunts in the set) would have (mostly) empty sections during that time.

An alternative might be something built into how the main {{Custom card table}} template works, but I suspect that would be a lot more work. The goal is simply to have new cards display automatically on those pages as they get added, but clearly marked as part of the upcoming content (especially since they're sometimes previewed weeks in advance) so they don't confuse things. -- Taohinton (talk) 20:17, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

I've added {{Card count}} that will give you the number of cards matching the given criteria. I've already modified List cards/Upcoming to use the count to determine whether to show up or not. It does unfortunately add another query, so the template is a little more expensive now, but I don't think that will be an issue for just upcoming cards. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 22:00, 7 November 2015 (UTC)
Sounds great! Unfortunately the template isn't returning any cards now when used - e.g. Discover#Cards. Any ideas? -- Taohinton (talk) 04:20, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Ack, a little fail with pipes. Fixed now. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 05:17, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
It's working great now. Thanks! -- Taohinton (talk) 05:24, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Card template redirects[edit source]

I mentioned in August about a change that resulted in "a lot of red "missing card" links, where previously text like {{Card|Thaddius (hero)}} was auto-redirecting to Thaddius (boss)." It crops up fairly regularly, since it's natural to expect redirects to prevent these kinds of errors following moves. Is this behaviour fixable, or is it something we'll have to live with? -- Taohinton (talk) 04:17, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

I never received a reply to this: Hearthstone Wiki talk:Admin noticeboard#Redirect equality part deux. As explained there, changing the setting back may carry a risk of undesirable side effects depending on what redirects we have in place. If it was completely risk-free, I would have just done it. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 06:08, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Ah ok, thanks, I'd forgotten. I never replied to that partly because of being very busy at the time, and also because I needed to ask if you could give an example or two for what you were describing. My head can't quite parse the technical stuff ;) -- Taohinton (talk) 06:20, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

Category sorting[edit source]

I recently started converting the card art system to tag pages using |hiddentags instead of through categories like Category:Night elf art. The old system uses concepts to find all cards in the appropriate category, but doesn't distinguish between eg cards representing night elves like Elven Archer and art which simply has night elves in it, like Confuse. In order to list these types separately on card art pages, we have to manually add cards, which adds a ton of work. The new hiddentags approach would add tags for each type, while keeping the categories on card pages for visibility/encouraging people to click and view the card art pages; therefore the whole system becomes more or less automated, saving a lot of effort.

However, as I was writing out a post on the subject, I realised that with a couple of changes categories may be a superior option anyway. Using |hiddentags means either adding every art category as both a tag and a category, which is simply double the work (plus extra tidying when editors forget and only do one or the other); or else not bothering with the categories, which means losing the visual presence. Instead, I realised I could simply split the categories into eg Category:Night elf art and Category:Night elves, and thus achieve the same result of automated card art pages.

There is one concern: currently category sorting like this is done through concepts, and {{Card table from concept}}. I'm assuming this isn't currently compatible with sorting by things like class or set, and doesn't work with {{Cards}}, which it would need to to provide a visual display. I imagine the latter could be arranged, but I'm concerned that there may be inherent limitations and incompatibilities that may lead to problems in the future if we want to do other things. Is sorting through categories a wise approach going forward, or should we aim to move away from this system toward the likes of |hiddentags? -- Taohinton (talk) 18:02, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

I guess I'm not entirely clear on what's being asked. There is already a category parameter on {{Cards}}, though it does currently require the category name to end in " card data." Removing that requirement is as simple as changing {{#if:{{{category|}}}|[[Category:{{{category}}} card data]]|[[Concept:Cards]]}} to {{#if:{{{category|}}}|[[Category:{{{category}}}]]|[[Concept:Cards]]}} on the first line of the template, though it'd affect any current usage of that parameter. That's because it was designed to work with the category parameter on {{Card infobox}}, which appends " card data" to the names, as opposed to manually added categories. I vaguely recall a category parameter being requested on Card infobox, but I suspect tags ended being used instead. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 06:00, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Yep, I'd forgotten about that one, due to the " card data" expectation! However, we still want to use the |category parameter in {{Card infobox}} (and already do use it, extensively). since all the relevant card categories end in " card data" and all the other ones don't, we need some way to differentiate which the editor is intending. I'm open to elegant suggestions; otherwise a decent compromise might be changing the relevant section to {{#if:{{{categoryname|}}}|[[Category:{{{categoryname}}}]]|{{#if:{{{category|}}}|[[Category:{{{category}} card data]]|[[Concept:Cards]]}}}} - editors can specify the name of a category using |categoryname, or else use |category to refer to a general card category (Boss, Tavern Brawl, Upcoming, etc). This would require no changes outside the template itself, and should be minimally annoying for future use in that it's pretty rare we need to sort by a specific named category. Does that sound like a decent approach? As far as what I'm asking for, I'm just trying to avoid setting up a system I'll regret in a few months' time. -- Taohinton (talk) 05:46, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
That should work fine. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 00:27, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
Back to one of my earlier points, is there a way to search for cards in multiple categories? For example, if we handle card art by searching for Category:Night elf art, is there a way to search for only those cards which are also in Category:Upcoming card data? Or are we limited to searching for one category at a time? -- Taohinton (talk) 02:36, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
Using a couple of the ParserPower functions, I've set it up so you can separate multiple categories with commas to restrict results only to those within all categories. This will work on both the categoryname and category parameter. Note that the unless they've made a change to SMW I'm unaware of, I can't add the same functionality for tags, but it does work for categories. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 22:47, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks! On a related note, I believe the current system for Choose One cards makes it fairly impossible to sort them? If so, now that we have card categories set up, would it be possible to control Choose One cards through category=Choose One instead? For example if |chosenfrom put the card into Category:Choose One card data etc instead of Category:Non-relevant card data. That way they would still be excluded from regular searches but could be sorted when desired. -- Taohinton (talk) 23:34, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
Switched it over to the Choose One card data category. I have a bot job running to speed up the update now. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 15:25, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

File: bug[edit source]

File: doesn't seem to be allowing linking when on the same line as |. Try mousing over the main 9 big hero portraits in this version. I fixed it by moving them down a line like this. Is this normal? -- Taohinton (talk) 05:26, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

I'd say you stumbled over a MediaWiki parser bug. It looks like it's the combination of | on the line along with empty values in the File: link, so | [[File:Example.png|link=Example||]] malfunctions, but | [[File:Example.png|link=Example]] seems to work fine. I've adjusted the {{heroportrait}} template to avoid returning empty values. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 09:23, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Your friend has been sent[edit source]

I wanted to see how does the 'Friend' feature works and was greeted by 'Your friend has been sent' message when I sent a friend request. Correct English it is not, hmmm? -- Karol007 (talk) 19:34, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Schrödinger's Wikipoints[edit source]

Would it be possible to count the edits etc. that were made before introducing the Achievements feature? My user profile says I've made over 1500 edits but the achievements page says 110. My profile page says I have over 10k wikipoints, but the achievements page says it's just 4k.

I don't care about those badges, but it's rather confusing. Is there an option to turn it off / opt out from achievement hunting? -- Karol007 (talk) 19:43, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

I apologize for the long delay in answering. It was hard to follow up during the holiday weeks. There isn't any option presently, though we're adding a request for a preference option to disable the popups. I can't give you an ETA presently on that. I'll get a bug report in on the profile-achievements mismatch; as far as I was aware, past activity should have already been counted and credited. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 19:43, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Properties[edit source]

Are Property:Is true card and Property:Is developer card currently used for anything? I'm planning on making some changes to the related section of {{Card infobox}} to fix the category system, and am wondering if I should keep those bits or trim them. -- Taohinton (talk) 14:38, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

No. Even though they are currently redundant, though, I would keep them. They aren't much overhead, and of we ever do have to use subobjects for anything card related, I can't use categories on subobjects, so they may still come in useful. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 04:44, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Translate French[edit source]


I want to help to translate this wiki in french so I want to know how I can help you and if you accept my help. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by MisterPricex3 (talkcontribs) 15:06, 2016 March 19‎

See gphelp:Translation guidelines for how we deal with translations. While usually I like to see all pages linked from the main page translated before opening a new language wiki, this wiki does have an unusually high number of pages linked from the main page, so I'd probably be looking for 20 to 25. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 20:05, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
Ok thanks but when i want to replace a name for a link to a page i can't translate it in french? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs) 21:40, 19 March 2016‎

Import requests[edit source]

We've only had one patch since the agreement regarding card imports, but I'm disappointed to say there was no import of data in response to it, despite the addition of dozens of new cards. I had to request an import manually 5 days later, with the import eventually arriving another 5 days after that - 10 days after the patch hit, and unfortunately the day after the cards had arrived in-game, and I had been left feeling I had no choice but to make the data up manually.

I'd like to hope this was due to the team not having had time to get things in place, but I fear it will be the same for the next patch, and the one after that, unless I say something. I'd like to emphasise as clearly as possible that the timing section of the agreement is the most important part of it, by a very long way. When the cards don't get imported until weeks later, I have to make the data manually, resulting in hours of unnecessary and ultimately entirely wasted effort, and of the most mechanical, repetitive kind.

If the team can simply import the data to the wiki ASAP once the patch hits (and obviously, after importing it to Hearthpwn), that would be fabulous, and save literally hours of wasted work per patch. A delay of a few days can generally be handled if necessary, better if I have reason to believe that the import is indeed coming in that kind of timescale, and not in 1-2 weeks, or more. Later than that and the cards are usually already in-game being played with, which means our readers are looking for them on the wiki, from which they are conspicuously absent... which means I have to do them manually.

With that in mind, a new patch is coming around April 23, possibly a few days later. I'd like to register in advance that the wiki will need the data from that patch imported when it hits. I am always happy to give advance notice for the big patches days or even weeks in advance if that will help with the import happening sooner. -- Taohinton (talk) 17:45, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

I've sent a message along asking for the import in advance, and reminding them we'd like it done on each patch. I'll let you know what I hear back. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 04:42, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
I meant to mention sooner, but the import came through only a couple of days after the patch, which I consider pretty good all in all - so please pass my thanks to the team for getting it done so promptly. I also noted that this import behaved quite differently to previous imports, and only imported the content we actually needed - more specifically put it didn't upload new versions for every single image but only for those which had changed. This is something I had wanted to ask about for a long time, but we'd had so much trouble just getting an agreement in place I didn't want to push my luck! It saves a lot of import time and also makes things a bit simpler at my end, and the file histories cleaner, as well as highlighting changes. So please tell them whatever they did worked very well and would be welcome in the future - especially if it makes it quicker and thus more convenient for them to import the data. -- Taohinton (talk) 07:45, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Bot run and stuff[edit source]

With game formats arriving soon, I'd like to add all cards currently valid in Standard format to Standard format cards. I'll then modify almost all card lists on the site to only include cards in that category in their results. I considered making the appropriate queries automatically discount cards from certain sets instead, but based on testing it seems like this would hit the upper limit for "query size or depth" before too long. The downside of this is I'll have to ask for a bot run once a year to update the contents of the category; the upside is we should now have a workable solution to the "omg the lists are getting longer and longer and the wiki will eventually collapse under the weight" problem :P

If you could add the category via a bot run that would save me a ton of time. The category wants to be added to the content pages for all Standard-valid cards and Hero Powers; this should be the correct query.

Separate question: I made {{cw}} to save me time when calling {{Cite web}}, however when adding a URL with a = in it (such as most YouTube links) it gets confused and ignores the first argument entirely, which is odd since calling Cite web directly has no such problems. Have I made an error, or is this just a limitation of the MediaWiki? If so, can you suggest a simple workaround? Thanks for the help. -- Taohinton (talk) 15:58, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

What's your preference: adding [[Category:Standard format cards]] to the pages or Standard format to the category parameter on Card infobox?
Also, the cw problem comes because the first equal sign is used to separate parameter name from value. Due to the syntax, there isn't a good way for the parser to automatically distinguish when the first equal sign should be part of the value, so it's stuck assuming it always separates a name and value, and that has to be worked around. One method is to explicitly give the numbers, i.e. {{cw|1=value|2=value}}, so that the first equal sign does separate name and value. Otherwise, there's {{=}} to hide it. Alternatively, you can switch to named parameters in the template itself. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 00:54, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
I was going to suggest adding the category directly to the bottom of the pages. This is because once a year we'll need to remove the category from the 350 or so cards that have been moved out of Standard format, and it seems it would be easier to remove direct category inclusions than deal with commas and the like in the infobox call. -- Taohinton (talk) 01:13, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, bot run seems to have worked nicely.
Cho'Gall isn't working with {{Card}} for some reason - see Whispers of the Old Gods#Warlock. At first I assumed this was a caching error due to having moved the page from Cho'gall to Cho'Gall, but it's been more than a week and it hasn't fixed itself. Any ideas? -- Taohinton (talk) 11:50, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
Sticky cache, it seems. I resaved the data page, then Cho'Gall itself, and that seemed to kick it into place. The data page save was likely unnecessary, but I was being derpy today and accidentally went to that first. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 12:30, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
Huh, I'd tried that several times already without success. Or more accurately, I used the 'Refresh' button. I thought you said that did the same thing as resaving, or am I remembering wrong? -- Taohinton (talk) 13:08, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
I couldn't tell you exactly what the difference is, but my past troubleshooting with these issues have demonstrated that they aren't fully the same. The null edit (resave) seems to be more thorough somehow, and it definitely seems to be more likely to solve caching issues that involve a property set. In this case, somehow or other, Cho'Gall got cached with Has image left blank. Refresh, which is the same as a purge, does seem to work fine when it's a cache issue on the query side, which I had to do with Whispers of the Old God to verify the resave worked. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 13:35, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
Thanks; I'd been thinking the functions were identical, so that knowledge will come in handy in future. We often get caching issues with images, too - is there anything that can be done for these, other than the usual resave process? File:Lady Liadrin(31127).png is one example that's been stuck for nearly a month now - you can see the contrast on Hero#Alternate_heroes - and I can't find a way to unstick it. This seems to happen fairly regularly, which can be annoying when we get corrections to translated card titles/text, etc. -- Taohinton (talk) 15:55, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
For this specific case, the two uploaded images are identical. I even downloaded both and ran an comparison and got a 100% match. There's a trick that lets you bypass the server cache when accessing the file directly. (Add a ? to the end of the url and a bit of random text when you have the image itself open, not just its file page. It works because the image cache caches files by exact direct urls, so if you give a url that leads to the same place but it is still textually different, then the first time you use that one you get the current image. And ? denotes a query string which just gets ignored for images. Sadly, there's no equivalent in the wiki image syntax.) I used this trick to make sure I wasn't getting a cached version from the image server. I would assume it looks different because it's getting increased in size, where the others are getting a size decrease.
For image caching in general, the wiki software doesn't control that cache, unfortunately, which is frustrating. It usually refreshes within minutes, though I have experienced it being frustratingly slow at times. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 23:47, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
D'oh, I had the two versions side by side on my desktop and must have uploaded the wrong one. I tried comparing the two versions shown in the file history, but I assumed the caching error was just giving me the old version both times.
Otherwise, yes it is frustrating at times, with old versions occasionally getting stuck for hours or even days. In the case of new images I've sometimes had to resort to deleting the file and reuploading the new version! Cheers. -- Taohinton (talk) 00:11, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
  • I wasn't sure we'd have any use for a Category:Wild format cards, but after implementing the split on the wiki, it seems we do. If you would be so kind as to run a bot adding the cards in the "Naxxramas" and "Goblins vs Gnomes" sets to that category, it would be much appreciated. I can't get the query page to work at the moment, but it should be the same query except requiring Naxx or GvG, instead of excluding Naxx and GvG.
    I'll try to get this fired off shortly. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 08:16, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
  • As noted on the minion card talk page, while Standard format should keep all or very nearly all the tables on the wiki within the technical limits, no such solution exists for Wild format. Your comments there about loading so many results at once made me think - would it be possible for a table to load a smaller number of results, say 200, then have a 'load more' button to load the next 200 results (mostly likely meaning replacing the previous table with the next 200 results)? This would obviously be the same solution seen on Hearthpwn and Hearthhead, which as you say only load small batches of cards at once. It wouldn't be ideal in terms of sortability, but for very big lists it would be a way to at least provide listings, rather than palming readers off to Hearthpwn. -- Taohinton (talk) 06:36, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
    SMW's solution for this, sadly, is just to allow you to have it produce a link that will just fill in Special:Ask with the needed information. It isn't as bad as it used to be because it doesn't show all the Special:Ask controls that would be unfriendly to the average user unless the Edit query link is clicked, but it isn't as adaptable because the sorting links are only going to affect what's on the page rather than appropriately reload and sort the whole set. (Basically, it looks like this: ... further results
    I've considered for some time trying to come up with an extension adding a general framework for dynamically loading content on wiki pages because it would be useful for many things. It would actually probably be really easy except for one thing: MediaWiki's page cache. If I've understood it correctly, and I don't guarantee because I've had a hard time finding much documentation on MediaWiki's page cache, it caches pages by the url used to retrieve them, which is a problem because that would mean it would be caching each page of a result set separately, which would make for weird issues any time the number of results changes.
  • Imagine, for example, we had the full collection of cards in a table on a page showing 100 at a time. Each group of 100 gets cached separately. Now a new card is added at #4. Someone refreshes the cache on the first 100 to see the results. The natural expectation would be that that the other pages would also refresh to deal with the new card pushing all results down, but it wouldn't. Instead, what is now card #101 just drops out of sight and all other groups of 100 still show what they were showing before until the second set is refreshed, dropping #201 out of sight, and so on. What's not at all clear to me is if there's a way such an extension could make sure the whole set is refreshed if one part gets refreshed, mostly because of my poor luck on finding useful documentation on this matter. If I can ever find a suitable way to control the cache, we could probably have table paging right in the middle of wiki pages themselves, even with sorting options. Otherwise, it's SMW's solution (as shown above) with its shortcomings or avoiding any paging at all. oOeyes User-OOeyes-Sig.png 08:16, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
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